Mike MacCracken attended my George C. Marshall Institute seminar titled ”Considering the Human Influence on Climate” on May 14 2009. First I want to thank the Institute again for graciously inviting me to present a lecture, and for encouraging the open participation by climate scientists and others of all viewpoints.
I also want to thank Mike for attending and for the time he took to complete his weblog. While he and I disagree on a number of substantive issues, he is willing to engage in constructive discussions, unlike quite a few others who are involved in the IPCC and CCSP process.
Mike has posted a summary of my talk titled “Michael MacCracken’s review of Roger Pielke, Sr.’s May 14 climate talk to the Marshall Institute”. While, he correctly summarized much of the talk, his summary does need clarification and correction in places. Below, I will comment on these issues in which we disagree.
1. Mike’s comment:“Pielke noted that the term “climate change” was not the right term to be using because climate was always changing. True, but by how much and how rapidly really matters. The recent pace of change is very unusual, given the present set of surface conditions (i.e., we do not have continental ice sheets melting around the Northern Hemisphere).”
The climate system has had much larger natural excursions in the recent past. We provide examples in
Rial, J., R.A. Pielke Sr., M. Beniston, M. Claussen, J. Canadell, P. Cox, H. Held, N. de Noblet-Ducoudre, R. Prinn, J. Reynolds, and J.D. Salas, 2004: Nonlinearities, feedbacks and critical thresholds within the Earth’s climate system. Climatic Change, 65, 11-38
and
Pielke Sr., R.A., 2008: Global climate models - Many contributing influences. Citizen’s Guide to Colorado Climate Change, Colorado Climate Foundation for Water Education, pp. 28-29.
We also need to make sure we do not use the term “climate change” when we are referring to “global warming or cooling”. Climate variability and change cover a much wider set of influences on society and the environment (e.g. see).
2. Mike’s comment: “He then made the point that CO2 is not like a traditional pollutant in that CO2 is and has always been a part of the climate system. He later said that it should not therefore be regulated like a traditional pollutant—suggesting that it would seem that with EPA treating it as a pollutant needing to be regulated, in the future EPA could regulate water vapor and land cover. On these points Pielke is being quite sloppy—methane, non-methane hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, and ozone are all present naturally and are being regulated as pollutants.”
Mike is the one who is not accurate here. Human caused emissions of “methane, non-methane hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, and ozone“ can result in atmospheric concentrations, that humans are exposed to, that have direct health effects, while CO2 at current, or even doubled or tripled atmospheric concentrations, does not.
3. Mike’s comment: “The focus solely on CO2 is mainly in the media and so in the public discussion—mainly to keep the matter focused and not to make things overwhelmingly complex. In addition, for the long-term (over centuries to millennia), CO2 is the major factor contributing to climate change (as indicated by the recent paper in Proceedings of the National Aacdemy of Sciences by Susan Solomon).”
The claim that CO2 is dominant over centuries to millennia is oversimplistic. Landscape and aerosol emissions (e.g. dust, fires) also have long term changes. Mike agrees the climate system involves these forcings, so he should be more vocal about letting the policymakers know this.
Moreover, with respect to policy actions, we are focusing on the coming decades, where all of the climate forcings that we identified in the 2005 NRC report are occurring; see
National Research Council, 2005: Radiative forcing of climate change: Expanding the concept and addressing uncertainties. Committee on Radiative Forcing Effects on Climate Change, Climate Research Committee, Board on Atmospheric Sciences and Climate, Division on Earth and Life Studies, The National Academies Press, Washington, D.C., 208 pp.
Policymakers need to be correctly informed of the diversity of human climate forcings that are altering local, regional and global climate. The IPCC and CCSP reports did not provide an accurate report to policymakers on this fundamental climate science issue.
Mike writes “The focus solely on CO2 is mainly in the media and so in the public discussion—mainly to keep the matter focused and not to make things overwhelmingly complex”. This narrow focus, also results in erroneous information being communicated to the public and policymakers!
4. Mike’s comment: “As specific illustrations of his assertion, Pielke showed the trends in satellite-derived observations of tropospheric and stratospheric temperatures (interestingly, and sensibly, using the RSS data set), indicating that while the former showed warming over the last four decades and the latter showed cooling over this period, the results for the last 10 years did not show the expected trends.”
I presented the RSS data since their figures were easier to extract from their webpage than the corresponding analysis of the UAH group. Both analyses show a lack of lower tropospheric warming in recent years. However, from your comment, it appears you have concluded the RSS analyses are superior. This issue was addressed, however, in an independent assessment and reported in the peer reviewed literature;
Randall R. M., B. M. Herman (2008), Using limited time period trends as a means to determine attribution of discrepancies in microwave sounding unit–derived tropospheric temperature time series, J. Geophys. Res., 113, D05105, doi:10.1029/2007JD008864.
I reported on this paper on my weblog (see), where I concluded that
“While both UAH and RSS are outstanding research groups, with respect to the assessment of multi-decadal tropospheric temperature trends, the independent comparison reported in Randall and Herman indicates that the trend values of the UAH group are more accurate.”
5. Mike’s comment: “For sea ice, Pielke suggested that Arctic sea ice had recovered its average area this past winter and Antarctic sea ice cover had recently been increasing, drawing the conclusion that sea ice feedback is not monotonic.”
I did not report that the Arctic sea ice has recovered to its long terms average (see my slide 8). Arctic sea ice has been below average for several years, and we published on this issue even before the more recent greater decline; see
Pielke Sr., R.A., G.E. Liston, and A. Robock, 2000: Insolation-weighted assessment of Northern Hemisphere snow-cover and sea-ice variability.J. Geophys. Res. Lett., 27, 3061-3064.
Pielke Sr., R.A., G.E. Liston, W.L. Chapman, and D.A. Robinson, 2004:Actual and insolation-weighted Northern Hemisphere snow cover and sea ice — 1974-2002. Climate Dynamics, 22, 591-595 DOI10.1007/s00382-004-0401-5.
6. Mike’s comment: “…..he suggested, measuring the temperature at 2 meters above the surface tends to yield a warm bias—for reasons that seemed to me a bit obscure during his lecture.”
The paper below provides a discussion of the reason for this bias. We have another paper, almost through the review process, which shows this is a global scale issue for all land areas.
Lin, X., R.A. Pielke Sr., K.G. Hubbard, K.C. Crawford, M. A. Shafer, and T. Matsui, 2007: An examination of 1997-2007 surface layer temperature trends at two heights in Oklahoma. Geophys. Res. Letts., 34, L24705, doi:10.1029/2007GL031652.
7. Mike’s comment: …”many other variables suggest that the surface temperature is rising. For example, snow cover is retreating; ranges of species are shifting, etc.”
Observational data conflicts with Mike’s assertion. Although not specifically on the range of species, with respect to phenology (see) the new White et al 2009 article reported on in that weblog writes
“We found no evidence for time trends in spring arrival from ground- or model-based data; using an ensemble estimate from two methods that were more closely related to ground observations than other methods, SOS trends could be detected for only 12% of North America and were divided between trends towards both earlier and later spring.”
For northern hemisphere snow cover, see from the Rutgers Snow Lab, where since about 1988 there has been no clear long term trend in this metric of snow cover.
8. Mike’s comment: ” …it seems to me that while land cover change can indeed affect local weather, even by significant amounts, and might well need to be locally regulated, the increase in the CO2 concentration is very dramatically altering the underlying baseline climate for everyone in the world—and so it has drawn the attention of international regulators.”
Mike has ignored, or is unaware, of the rich literature that documents that human caused landscape results in alterations of regional and global climate including; for example, the Asian monsoon (e.g. see); the summer weather over the eastern USA (e.g. see); and planetary circulation patterns (e.g. see). A NASA press release on our Florida research effectively summarizes this issue (see).
9. Mike’s comment: “I also agree with Pielke that the spatial variations in aerosols and their forcing should be considered, but I am more interested in scales larger than in the more localized areas that Pielke seemed to focus on.”
Mike and I agree on this issue. I am also concerned about scales larger than localized areas. However, Mike is inconsistent in his conclusion. If spatial variations in aerosol heating are important in terms of their role in altering regional scale circulation features, land use/land cover change, and other aspects of landscape dynamics, should be of a comparable importance.
10. Mike’s comment: “Near as I could discern, he believes the main problem is that IPCC and other assessments are not, even after review, sufficiently accounting for his views on the effects of land cover change on the regional weather and climate.”
My concerns with the assessment process are much more significant than just that my per reviewed viewpoint on the important climate issues was excluded. The problem with the assessment process is that indepedent evaluations of them are not being completed. I have documented the resulting narrowness of the IPCC and CCSP assessments in detail, and invite Mike to respond to the specific concerns that I report. This documentation can be read at
Pielke Sr., Roger A., 2005: Public Comment on CCSP Report “Temperature Trends in the Lower Atmosphere: Steps for Understanding and Reconciling Differences“. 88 pp including appendices.
The appendices in Pielke Sr., Roger A., 2008: A Broader View of the Role of Humans in the Climate System is Required In the Assessment of Costs and Benefits of Effective Climate Policy.Written Testimony for the Subcommittee on Energy and Air Quality of the Committee on Energy and Commerce Hearing “Climate Change: Costs of Inaction” – Honorable Rick Boucher, Chairman. June 26, 2008, Washington, DC., 52 pp.
11. Mike’s comment: “On the question of having the author teams be neutral, I don’t think a coherent vision emerged. For this to be implemented, these neutral authors would, at the start, have to not be doing research in the area, for it would not be helpful to change the process if all that we ended up with was a new set of authors citing their own work.”
The assumption that the authors would be “neutral” or “not to be doing research in the area” is not correct. There are many well-qualified climate scientists working on climate research, who do not have the significant vested interest in the outcome of a climate assessment.
As an example of the current conflict of interest, Tom Karl was Chair of the committee evaluating the quality of his own surface temperature trend data in the CCSP Report “Temperature Trends in the Lower Atmosphere: Steps for Understanding and Reconciling Differences“. I was strong-armed on that committee to accept Tom Karl’s conclusion on the robustness of his data and analyses. This failure in the assessment process led us subsequently to complete our own multi-authored peer reviewed assessment which we reported on, for example, in
Pielke Sr., R.A. J. Nielsen-Gammon, C. Davey, J. Angel, O. Bliss, N. Doesken, M. Cai., S. Fall, D. Niyogi, K. Gallo, R. Hale, K.G. Hubbard, X. Lin, H. Li, and S. Raman, 2007: Documentation of uncertainties and biases associated with surface temperature measurement sites for climate change assessment. Bull. Amer. Meteor. Soc., 88:6, 913-928.
Pielke Sr., R.A., C. Davey, D. Niyogi, S. Fall, J. Steinweg-Woods, K. Hubbard, X. Lin, M. Cai, Y.-K. Lim, H. Li, J. Nielsen-Gammon, K. Gallo, R. Hale, R. Mahmood, S. Foster, R.T. McNider, and P. Blanken, 2007: Unresolved issues with the assessment of multi-decadal global land surface temperature trends. J. Geophys. Res., 112, D24S08, doi:10.1029/2006JD008229.
12. Mike’s comment: “In seeking win-win strategies, Pielke also urged that the climate effects of all factors, including natural variability, be accounted for in addition to the climate change effects of greenhouse gases. Well, the National Assessment urged that as well. Indeed, regional assessment leaders were urged to consider three types of scenarios for the 21st century: (a) a repeat of the 20th century climate, but with altered societal conditions; (b) the changes in climate projected by a set of climate models (unfortunately, appropriate and complete model results were then available from only two modeling groups, although less complete results could also be used in some analyses); and (c) based on longer-term paleoclimatic data (derived, for example, from tree-ring reconstructions and other means), evaluate where sensitive thresholds might be and their likelihood and consequences. It is true that the first (and so far only) time through the National Assessment process most of the emphasis was on the use of the model-based scenarios, but the intent was there (although unfortunately not the resources and the time)—the effort really needed to be continued and improved rather than halted as the Bush-43 Administration ended up doing”.
I am glad that Mike and I agree on the scenario approach above. However, the choice of ONLY the model-based scenarios resulted in a seriuosly incomplete miscommunication to policymakers of the actual possible threats we face in the future. I urge Mike to encourage funding in the current Administation for such an inclusive vulnerability assessment.
13. Mike’s comment: “I would also note that I do not think that scientists should be asked what they “believe,” but instead what their analysis and interpretation of the evidence indicates.”
I agree with Mike on this. However, he is in error in reporting what is written on my powerpoint slide on this issue. I wrote “The climate science community should be polled with respect to which of the following three hypotheses have been rejected” (see slide 53).
14. Mike’s comment: “in that for four IPCC assessments there has been unanimous acceptance of the IPCC chapters by the nations of the world without any nation taking exception..”
Mike is mixing up a political acceptance of the chapters with the scientific rigor of the assessments. We have completed a preliminary poll of the climate science community (see) and found more diversity of perspectives than claimed by Mike’s statement of the “unanimous acceptance of the IPCC chapters”.
15. Mike’s comment: “Overall, my sense was that this was a more thoughtful discussion of the issues than Prof. Pielke has presented in the past—and one that one could engage with. So, that’s progress. ”
I agree with Mike on this, and welcome his contributution to a constructive debate. I also want to thank again the George C. Marshall Institute for their graciousness in providing a venue so that these discussions can take place. We need more such opportunities, if the public and policymakers are going to be provided the true diversity of viewpoints by climate scientists on the role of humans within the climate system.